Sky News AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and Mark Butler MP
30 August 2010
8:30am
E & OE
Subjects: Negotiations with independent Members
KIERAN GILBERT:
Good morning and welcome to AM Agenda. As the negotiations with the key country independents enter a crucial stage this week, there are claims of a smear campaign and bullying against one of the key independent MPs. Joining me on the program this morning to discuss this and the other elements of the looming hung Parliament, Liberal frontbencher Mitch Fifield from Melbourne. Good morning Senator.
MITCH FIFIELD:
Good morning Kieran.
GILBERT:
And from Adelaide I’ve got Labor frontbencher Mark Butler. Mark thank you for joining us this morning as well. And first to you Mark. These claims of a smear campaign and bullying. What’s your reaction to that? Rob Oakeshott’s had a few more comments relating to that this morning.
MARK BUTLER:
Well I’ve seen the reports as others have as well. Look we take the view that these negotiations should be conducted through the leaders of the major parties, particularly the Prime Minister in our case and Tony Abbott in Mitch’s case. These are incredibly important negotiations from the point of view of the national interest. So although I don’t have anymore details of the allegations than I’ve seen in the reports and presumably you’ve also seen in the reports Kieran, we think that it’s important to conduct these negotiations in a mature and sensible way and these reports don’t reflect that.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, I want bring you in immediately to the conversation because one of the claims this morning in the News Limited press that a senior Liberal MP phoned Rob Oakeshott on his mobile, and this was confirmed by Rob Oakeshott this morning, and his wife answered the phone and asked “who’s calling” and he said “the devil ha ha ha” apparently this Liberal MP, according to the reports. What do you make of that and that sort of behaviour?
FIFIELD:
I heard the interview with Rob Oakeshott on radio this morning. I don’t know who the parliamentary colleague in question is. But I always find that if I have an issue with a parliamentary colleague, the best way to deal with it is to take it up with them directly. And if there’s no satisfaction there to take it up with the party leader. But it’s important at this delicate time, an important time for the nation, that as parliamentary colleagues we do treat each other with courtesy and respect.
GILBERT:
But Mitch apparently the MP then said to, apologised and said I’m sorry I didn’t realise I was talking to your wife. I thought I was talking to one of your children.
FIFIELD:
That all sounds quite unusual and peculiar to me. And as I say, I think it’s best to take these matters up with the relevant parliamentary colleague or with the party leader and that we all keep our eye on the ball and that is to look to find a way through to provide good and stable government for the nation.
GILBERT:
Certainly it would be an unnecessary headache for Tony Abbott right now. Senator Fifield, you heard from what Mark Butler’s saying and the Labor Party preparing its briefs for these various independents who are arriving back today. But to have to deal with this sort of thing, does it come as a surprise or are there really those sorts of tensions between country Liberal MPs and the Nats and these independents?
FIFIELD:
I think it’s important for all of us to focus on the job at hand. And that’s where we find ourselves in a situation where the Federal Labor Government has been comprehensively rejected at the polls. We have a government which no longer has legitimacy, which has lost its majority. We have a Parliament where the Australian people have given us a very delicately balanced situation. And what we should be focusing on this week is talking to the independents. Talking to them about their concerns, about the reforms that they have in mind and seeing this through to make sure that we don’t end up in a situation that is in effect Groundhog Day, where as quickly as possible we can see a new government formed.
GILBERT:
But do you concede that there are sensitivities within the National Party about the way the independents might be treated in any subsequent Parliament? Because of course these are seats that were formerly held by the Nationals, all three of them.
FIFIELD:
We’re in a competitive political environment. The heart of electoral politics is about contestability. It’s about candidates defeating other candidates. That’s the nature of the business that we’re in. So I guess at times it’s understandable in that environment, in that situation, that there will be tensions around the margins. But we need to put those things aside. We need to focus on the national interest and we need to focus on forming the next government for Australia.
GILBERT:
Mark Butler, is this, are these internal issues on the Coalition’s side of the fence, the Nationals today, the front page of The Australian, Senator Williams, ‘wacka’ Williams says “if we’re going into government the Nationals aren’t going to just sit back and watch the money pour into the independent seats.” Is what he says to The Australian newspaper. Are these sensitivities something that you will play on and that the government is hoping will work in your favour?
BUTLER:
Well I think it’s not just about working in our favour, it’s about the national interest, like I said at the beginning of your interview. There are question marks about Tony Abbott’s capacity to bring stability to these negotiations let alone to three years of minority government. What it appears from this morning reports and the meeting that is scheduled to take place today at the National Party MPs and Senators is that Tony Abbott may well have to open up a new front of negotiation and that is with his own ostensible coalition partner, the National Party. So there are very critical questions I think not only about the way in which a number of the Liberal Party or National Party MPs are behaving during these negotiations, and we’re not sure whether it is Liberal Party or National Party, but also as a group. Whether the Coalition itself is able to hold together during an incredibly delicate time for the national interest.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, what’s your response to that? Particularly in the context of Rob Oakeshott’s criticisms of the National Party for running a smear campaign against him. And he pointed the finger at Warren Truss, the Nationals leader in all of that as well.
FIFIELD:
I can’t think of a parliamentary colleague less likely to be conducting a smear campaign than Warren Truss. And Warren has said that’s not the case. So obviously I accept that. I don’t think we’re tearing ourselves apart on the Coalition side of politics. It’s clearly Labor that is doing that. You’ve got the National President of the ALP, Premier Anna Bligh, who had an almighty swipe at her Federal parliamentary colleagues the other day criticising directly the Federal Labor campaign. You’ve got people running around with meat axes looking for Karl Bitar. You’ve got Senator Mark Arbib who’s in a witness protection program at the moment, being pulled off the Q&A television program. Labor are in absolute disarray. They’re barely keeping it together and there’s no doubt that it’s only the Coalition that is able to provide stable and competent government. The ALP with a majority weren’t able to provide stable and competent government, so there’s absolutely no chance that as a minority government that they would be able to do that.
GILBERT:
Mark Butler, is that true that Labor is barely keeping it together? I should point out that Morris Iemma was very open in his criticisms of Karl Bitar as well last week in the wake of the election. Chris Schacht, former ALP Minister sitting in the seat where you are this morning had a big spray on Friday saying it was the worst campaign he’d seen. Now is this just trying to keep the lid on the simmering tensions underneath what was a disastrous election campaign.
BUTLER:
We’ve seen Guy Barnett commenting on the Tasmanian campaign. We’ve seen Alby Schultz commenting on the three cornered contest again in NSW. I think it is inevitable that after a campaign where a major party is unable to get an absolute majority of seats, and that was the case with the Labor Party as it was for the Coalition, some people will make some public comments about the campaign. That’s happened on both sides and I’d be surprised if there weren’t some more from outside of the parliamentary party of the Labor Party. But it is important to note that Chris Schacht and Morris Iemma are historical figures of the Labor Party. They are not part of the Caucus. They played an incredibly important role at other times in our history. But they are not part of the Caucus. And for all . . . .
FIFIELD:
. . . What about Anna Bligh? She’s the National President of the ALP.
BUTLER:
Again, she is not part of the Federal Parliamentary Caucus Mitch.
FIFIELD:
She’s your Federal President.
BUTLER:
For all of Mitch’s bluff and bluster about meat axes and so on, he is unable to point to any member of the parliamentary Labor Party who is making any comment other than getting entirely behind Julia Gillard’s negotiations with the rural independents, the Greens and Andrew Wilkie from Tasmania. The approach from the Labor Party is entirely disciplined and it’s entirely united. We’re not seeing the same however from the Coalition party room.
GILBERT:
Alright gentlemen, let’s take a quick break on AM Agenda. We’ll be right back. Stay with us.
GILBERT:
Welcome back to AM Agenda. Thanks for your company this morning. With me Labor frontbencher Mark Butler from Adelaide and Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield in Melbourne. Mitch Fifield, there have been some comments this morning again by one of the independents Rob Oakeshott wanting to flush out he says any sentiment that might exist in either of the parties to go back to an election within the next couple of months, that to see these negotiations collapse and to go back to a poll. What’s your view? Is there any sense or any sentiment within the Coalition that would support that strategy?
FIFIELD:
Certainly not. We respect the decision of the Australian people. They have made their choice in 150 seats in the House of Representatives and the onus is on us as the party, as the Coalition, with the largest number of seats in the Parliament, to seek to form a government and to make that work. And that’s what Tony Abbott is setting about to do this week.
GILBERT:
You say you’ve got the most number of seats but isn’t it a dead heat? Because the Nationals member from WA says he’s not a member of the Coalition. That he’s going to be sitting on the crossbenches. So that would be 72 a piece and then you throw in the Greens MP and it’s a dead heat.
FIFIELD:
I think it’s clear that our colleague from Western Australia, Mr Crook, has indicated that there is no way that he could support a party which was intent on maintaining a mining tax which directly hits the viability of many businesses in his home state. That being the case, we would look to Mr Crook to be supportive of our side of the fence. We’ve got a way to go yet and we certainly respect his independence of mind and the autonomy of the West Australian division of the National Party. But we do clearly, in addition, have a majority of the primary vote. We think we are in the best position to seek to form a government and we’ll be continuing discussions with the independents this week in an effort to convince them that we are in the best position.
GILBERT:
Ok, Mark, what do you make of the prospects of another election within the next few months? Do you think Labor would struggle? Would be difficult after getting such as wack at the last poll that it would be really starting from a point of weakness for you?
BUTLER:
Well I don’t think any of us have been involved in any crystal ball gazing about what might happen if another election were held imminently. We’re focused on negotiations with the rural independents and with Adam Bandt from the Greens and also Andrew Wilkie. We think that we’re well positioned to provide stable and effective government. We think the people have voted, albeit for a hung Parliament. But they’ve voted and the proper thing for us to do is to try and put together a minority government that delivers stable and effective government, continues with the reform plans that we have in health and education, the broadband network, a range of other areas, and go back to the polls in three years time.
GILBERT:
Would your view be that it was, I mean you look at what Senator Fifield has said, he says its 73, 72 and that the National MP from WA has said no chance of backing Labor. So are you one behind as far you tell or is it 73 a piece as far as you see it?
BUTLER:
Well no we think it’s 72 a piece. It seems pretty clear that the Western Australian National would incline towards the Coalition. The Green elected in Melbourne would incline towards supporting Labor. I think all serious commentators have seen it as a dead heat of 73 a piece with four independents yet to declare their hand. So it’s a bit of wishful thinking I think on Mitch’s part. I think all serious commentators now see it as being 73 a piece.
GILBERT:
And how long do you think this is going to drag on for? I mean Tony Windsor says hopefully by the end of the week he’ll have made a decision. Andrew Wilkie by mid-week. How long do you think that this could drag on for though? It does look like the seat count has pretty much firmed up.
BUTLER:
It does look like the seat count has firmed up. It would seem unlikely that there would be any change in the numbers that the AEC are currently predicting. But look these negotiations will take as long as they take. Tony Windsor has said that he’d like to see them rapped up by the end of the week and I’m sure all of us would like to see this finished sooner rather than later. But the main goal is to get this done properly rather than get it done quickly so that the independents who yet have to declare their hand do so on an informed and proper basis. Including of course consideration of the two party preferred vote. As much as Mitch tried to focus on the first preference vote, we don’t have a first past the post system in Australia. We have a two-party preferred or a preferential voting system and it’s quite clear that a majority of Australians preferred a Labor Government over an Abbott led Coalition Government. That’s quite clear from the votes. All you need to do is open up the front page of the results of the AEC.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, I’ll let you respond to a couple of those points. Also, are you worried that if it does drag on, that the uncertainty isn’t good for business and for the economy if it does drag on beyond this week and say for the next few weeks?
FIFIELD:
Well to some of the points that Mark raised first. If the Australian people had preferred a Gillard Government, there would be a majority of seats for a Gillard Government. If the Australian people did want a Gillard Government there wouldn’t have been 500,000 primary votes for the Coalition ahead of Labor. And if the Australian people had wanted a Gillard Government, they wouldn’t have lost a massive swag of seats. But to your point Kieran about the need for stability and certainty, it is part of the glory and majesty of a parliamentary democracy, I guess, that you do after an election in a finely balanced Parliament have a time of uncertainty. But the important thing is that period of uncertainty is kept to a minimum. So we wouldn’t want to see things needlessly drag out. I think the make-up of the next government is still being dealt within a reasonable time-frame. But obviously the sooner it can be dealt with and the sooner a new government can be installed the better.
GILBERT:
Mark Butler, the claim or the call for pokies reform from Andrew Wilkie, how does Federal Labor deliver that? Isn’t that something that the states would need to orchestrate?
BUTLER:
Well, far be it for me to give a bush lawyers opinion, but it seems that from what the former government did with the corporations law, particularly in relation to Workchoices, the High Court says that the corporations power and the Constitution is now quite broad. So at first blush it would appear that the Commonwealth Government would have the capacity to regulate betting limits for example which seems to be Andrew Wilkie’s focus and I know Nick Xenophon’s focus. It would appear that the Commonwealth would have the power to regulate betting limits between corporate poker machine operators, pubs and clubs and such like and their patrons. So this is a matter Andrew Wilkie has raised, Nick Xenophon has raised before. The Productivity Commission ventilated this idea in their recent report. I know my parliamentary colleague here in South Australia Nick Champion; the Labor Member for Wakefield has raised issues like this as well. So although traditionally this has been a matter that has been dealt with or regulated by state governments as industrial relations was some years ago as well, it seems to me that the Commonwealth Government, Labor or Coalition, would be able to regulate this matter if it were minded to do so. Now Andrew Wilkie has raised this with our Prime Minister and I’m sure that she and Wayne Swan, the Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer are giving it very serious consideration.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, just quickly your response to that.
FIFIELD:
The Coalition has had concern about gaming for a long time. It was Peter Costello who actually gave the very first referral to the Productivity Commission about gaming. And there were some significant reforms that came about from that particular report. Tony Abbott will be meeting Andrew Wilkie for the first time today and I’m sure Tony will be open to discussing these matters with Mr Wilkie.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, and Mark Butler, appreciate your time this morning. Another busy week ahead gents, thanks a lot for that.
ENDS